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Trueform?
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Jarandhel Dreamsinger
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Sunday, 6th June, 2010 - 1:46 pm
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What do people think of the concept of trueform?  I struggle with it a bit myself, I don’t think I have a single form that could be termed more “true” than others.  I know some people believe they are otherkin because their souls are nonhuman, and the “trueform” term in that case refers to the natural form for their soul.  Personally, I remember lives as a variety of nonhuman beings, and I don’t really subscribe to the idea that a soul has a species.  Instead, I think that certain lives and cultures affected us so deeply it left something like an imprint on our souls.  For some of us, several lives affected us that way.

What do you think?

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technobushi

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Sunday, 6th June, 2010 - 2:51 pm
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I feel similarly to you, Jarin.

If “otherkin” is anything other than human, than basically most people in the community are coming together to recognize nonhuman lives or aspects of themselves, something I think everyone has, in the end.  It really depends on whether or not you are aware of it.

I don’t see how a human life can leave any more or less a deep imprint than a nonhuman one, except maybe for the fact that nonhuman lives may be more extended than human ones.  Assuming you’re considering time as a linear event.

~Tenshidoom

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Claude

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Sunday, 6th June, 2010 - 3:24 pm
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I also don’t think there is one trueform for me. In fact, my partner-in-crime and I here have already been shifted into a common new form once within our remembered shared life before we got here. From two separate bodies of the same species (human/humanoid/other as is being discussed elsewhere 😉 ) into one humanoid-shaped energetic ‘body’ that was obviously somewhat different, and looked more like my other half than me, likely because he’d been the one initiating the shift. And we were both comfortable there. Now we’re both in another human body, and that is fine, too.

I don’t actually think we had any nonhuman pasts and aspects other than the ‘extraterrestial humanoid’ (?) thing, and I’m not sure I could feel comfortable in the body or shape of an animal, but it’s probably hard to tell without experiencing it. So I’ll reserve judgment on that.

Within our mind, when we communicate without utilising the body we’re in, the (self-)images are humanly shaped, but resemble more the energetic type form we had before, and it can be ignored or dissolved entirely so there are only minds, like electrically charged clouds, communicating in spirit and energy.

So I think when this body dies and we move to the afterlife, it’ll be okay too, whatever it will be like. We’re pretty flexible there. devious

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casteylan

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Monday, 7th June, 2010 - 8:48 am
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I think it’s different from one individual to another.

Arhuaine had more than one form, heck she was practically a professional shapeshifter, although she was primarily elven. She also had a more fae-like form with wings, and a draconic form, and a number of animal forms.

Myself, I’m more “fixed” – I don’t seem to have any alternative forms at all. I’m just a tall skinny, ginger-haired old elf with a beaky nose and a cheeky grin. I never seem to change at all. I don’t even remember multiple past-lives; just the one.

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Jarandhel Dreamsinger
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Monday, 7th June, 2010 - 9:31 am
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technobushi said:

I don’t see how a human life can leave any more or less a deep imprint than a nonhuman one, except maybe for the fact that nonhuman lives may be more extended than human ones.  Assuming you’re considering time as a linear event.

 

Well, I didn’t mean that it was the fact that the life was nonhuman that had left a deeper imprint.  I think any life, even human ones, has a chance to leave such an imprint.  But I think it generally takes something big happening.  It doesn’t happen much with your ordinary, quiet lives.  I think that’s why so many of us remember wars, for instance.  And maybe why you don’t see too many “simple elven farmers” showing up as otherkin.

 

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technobushi

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Monday, 7th June, 2010 - 9:56 am
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Well, I didn’t mean that it was the fact that the life was nonhuman that had left a deeper imprint.  I think any life, even human ones, has a chance to leave such an imprint.  But I think it generally takes something big happening.  It doesn’t happen much with your ordinary, quiet lives.  I think that’s why so many of us remember wars, for instance.  And maybe why you don’t see too many “simple elven farmers” showing up as otherkin.

 


 

Could it just be that it isn’t glamorous enough to be a simple elven farmer?  Although I won’t deny that the otherkin phenomenon is valid, I think a great number of the community is just one big bullshit-spouting geyser.  Perhaps I don’t have room to talk, but my opinion still stands.

~Tenshidoom

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casteylan

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Monday, 7th June, 2010 - 10:22 am
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technobushi said:

 

Could it just be that it isn’t glamorous enough to be a simple elven farmer?  Although I won’t deny that the otherkin phenomenon is valid, I think a great number of the community is just one big bullshit-spouting geyser.  Perhaps I don’t have room to talk, but my opinion still stands.

~Tenshidoom


 

I think you’re partly right, there’s always been an element of idealism and bullshitting. But I think Jarin is too.

Put it this way. I can’t remember what I did every day last week. I mean I know I would have got up, gone to work, run errands, etc. But I don’t remember specifically what I did all day, every day, unles it was something that was particularly memorable. But I do clearly remember significant days from years and years ago. People tend to only recall significant or unusual events.

FWIW, I was an elven farmer, for at least part of my life. But I sure as heck couldn’t describe much about it. Then after that I was a soldier. This part of my life I remember more clearly, because it was, by its very nature, more dramatic.

 

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Jarandhel Dreamsinger
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Monday, 7th June, 2010 - 11:04 am
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technobushi said:

Could it just be that it isn’t glamorous enough to be a simple elven farmer?


In some cases, sure.  But look at the people that we’re fairly sure are genuine.  Any farmers among them?  Any peasants?  Look at your own past lives and those of your system mates.  I think it takes big stressful events to leave an impression deep enough to span lifetimes.  Much, as Cas said, like it takes significant or unusual events to leave an impression deep enough to remember years later.

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Claude

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Monday, 7th June, 2010 - 11:20 am
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In the case of our system members’ remembered past lives, there are also the ones that stand out for all the reasons you guys have mentioned, but also fairly unspectacular ones, and memories of long stretches of very mundane lifestyles. But there is always something about those times that stands out, and most often it’s people. Since several of us tend to remember each other from before in various combinations, merely sharing a system and the included empathy and feeling of others’ presence can be enough to trigger memories, if that person stood out in that lifetime. And sometimes that’s all there is about it that’s interesting, but impressions can be strong.

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Arethinn
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Tuesday, 8th June, 2010 - 2:22 pm
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Like Casteylan, I think it may differ for different souls. Some are “blank” or “generic” and have taken on one or more imprints of perhaps differing relative strengths over time; others were created to be one thing from the start and so their soul could be said to have a “species” of its own, whether or not they ever tried on anything else as well. So to the question of what is a “true form”, for some this may be obvious and simple; for others having strong attachments to various forms may muddy the waters considerably.

 

In that case I would ask, how many human lives does one have to add to the mix before it’s a candidate for “just as true as anything else” – say you were a dragon who remembered 20 human lives but as far as you knew this was the first time you were a, what then? Would your “true form” be the blank? The human? I’d guess it would be just as individual a case in that situation as it is in the reverse – said person would have to think about it and determine the answer for themselves (whether they were a “human otherkin” or whether they’d done a learning excursion and were “really” a dragon, or whether something else was the case).

 

In any event, since we’re here now that’s more of a thought exercise than a practical consideration, I think. For my own “true form”, I think if we had one of those hypothetical “veil falling” things going on, that it probably actually wouldn’t look purely like the current I’m presently following most in myself (sidhe); I think there’s enough going on that it would turn out some kind of mix which is probably not what I would just intellectually piece together from pick’n’mix of my parts. wink

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The Doctor
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Monday, 21st June, 2010 - 12:34 pm
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Arethinn said:

In that case I would ask, how many human lives does one have to add to the mix before it’s a candidate for “just as true as anything else” – say you were a dragon who remembered 20 human lives but as far as you knew this was the first time you were a, what then? Would your “true form” be the blank? The human? I’d guess it would be just as individual a case in that situation as it is in the reverse – said person would have to think about it and determine the answer for themselves (whether they were a “human otherkin” or whether they’d done a learning excursion and were “really” a dragon, or whether something else was the case).

Why does it matter? What are we doing with our lives right now?

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technobushi

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Monday, 21st June, 2010 - 12:41 pm
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The Doctor said:

Arethinn said:

In that case I would ask, how many human lives does one have to add to the mix before it's a candidate for “just as true as anything else” – say you were a dragon who remembered 20 human lives but as far as you knew this was the first time you were a, what then? Would your “true form” be the blank? The human? I'd guess it would be just as individual a case in that situation as it is in the reverse – said person would have to think about it and determine the answer for themselves (whether they were a “human otherkin” or whether they'd done a learning excursion and were “really” a dragon, or whether something else was the case).

Why does it matter? What are we doing with our lives right now?


 

I was thinking the same thing.

~Tenshidoom

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Arethinn
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Monday, 21st June, 2010 - 2:05 pm
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The Doctor said:

Why does it matter? What are we doing with our lives right now?

Um, that’s exactly what I said, isn’t it? “In any event, since we’re here now that’s more of a thought exercise than a practical consideration, I think.”

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The Doctor
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Arethinn said:

Um, that’s exactly what I said, isn’t it? “In any event, since we’re here now that’s more of a thought exercise than a practical consideration, I think.”

My apologies. I should read more carefully when trying to post from work.

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Fei

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Monday, 28th June, 2010 - 2:38 pm
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Jarandhel Dreamsinger said:

 Instead, I think that certain lives and cultures affected us so deeply it left something like an imprint on our souls.  For some of us, several lives affected us that way.

 


 

Yeah. Pretty much that. I do have something of a general shape I take on the spiritual/astral/in-system level, something of a blend of the forms in important lifetimes, usually humanoid, and with some features deliberately chosen as representative and not out of any true objective fact that cannot be helped. Humanoid shapes are the only ones in which I feel properly represented long-term though, so there is something about that. Sometimes I shift around a bit in details, and the variety in humanoid races and features that have left an imprint make choosing any one form impossible. Not that I'd feel like posing that limit on myself anyway, after all I can do what I want with my spirit, so I do.

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Ayaka Inu
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I believe true form is unique to the individual, just as the individual is unique to others. It would also depend one whether or not the individual in question has had more than one past life, in which case it would likely be the one they felt most at home in or somewhere in between. as for me a simple wolf form is what I would consider my true form. Often this is evidenced by phantom limb sensation such as feeling the tail, or feeling of being covered with fur, but that would differ from from one individual to another.

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