Dreamhart.org

Combat Magic | Miscellaneous | Forums

A A A

Please consider registering
guest

sp_LogInOut Log In sp_Registration Register

Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search

— Forum Scope —






— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

sp_Feed Topic RSS sp_TopicIcon
Combat Magic
Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
Avatar
Jarandhel Dreamsinger
Arlington, VA

Site Admin
Wednesday, 16th June, 2010 - 1:50 pm
Member Since: Friday, 20th June, 2008
Forum Posts: 540
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I was reading an online book on Chaos Magic (Ordered Kaos – Techniques of Chaos Magic by Joseph Max) last night, and I came across an interesting quote in its section on Combat Magic:

“It’s likely that many of those with a previous background in magic will be quite upset that a chapter such as this is included in this book. To some, combat magic is an abomination, and should never be spoken of except when accompanied by a dire warning to avoid it at all costs. Clichés about giving loaded guns to children will be dutifully spouted. I don’t agree with the analogy. It would be more accurate to describe it as giving a child a box full of the parts to construct a gun, along with gunpowder, lead and shell casings with a reloading machine to make the bullets. It’s highly unlikely that a total novice will be able to assemble the parts into anything harmful, to themselves or anyone else. By the time they accumulate the knowledge necessary to construct something dangerous, they will also know how to avoid shooting themselves in the foot.”

Personally, I pretty much agree.  But I’m curious what others think.  Do you think making such information available to the general public is dangerous, and equivalent to leaving a loaded gun where a child can get it?

AnOtherWiki: A free encyclopedia by, for, and about Otherkin.  Join us, and help us grow.

 

Avatar
Claude

Normal Member
Members
Wednesday, 16th June, 2010 - 2:23 pm
Member Since: Monday, 31st May, 2010
Forum Posts: 122
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I rather have a problem with any kind of elitism in this area, generally spouted by those who see themselves as oh-so-enlightened gurus with oh-so-advanced knowledge, and thinking themselves above any erring or doing anything wrong (of course! They’re enlightened after all!). They get to decide who this knowledge might be passed on to safely (their grovelling minions, I mean faithful followers with potential (never anything matching the Enlightened One) and the sense to see the wisdom of the person who invested all his time and energy into getting his or her personal PR machine running enough to have those followers in the first place), best for a humble fee equalling many people’s monthly food budget. Or, well, a book. They get to set the rules and standards, and some patronising is really in everyone’s best interest, right? And no one dare imagine what would happen if these things should be available to the general masses (everyone not included in the grovelling minions count).

Not that I think there is generally anything to these claims in the first place. I think these people are pretentious frauds or self-deluded flakes or both at the same time, and giving anyone the tools for their so-called combat magic is indeed perfectly harmless because it’s a fancy invention. But if there’s anyone I would not see any actual knowledge of that type in the hands of, it’s that type of self-important guru/author intent on controlling their flock and making money with their rubbish and exploiting others; and face it, the real general masses are going to bypass that shelf in the bookstore, maybe shaking their heads and laughing, maybe drowning it out altogether. What danger is there going to be from your average bank employee (okay, maybe bankers are a bad example in these times 😉 ) who thinks this is all crazy anyway?

Avatar
Claude

Normal Member
Members
Wednesday, 16th June, 2010 - 2:33 pm
Member Since: Monday, 31st May, 2010
Forum Posts: 122
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

ps: Hey, remember, what’s-it-called, Radki? I think that is what happens if you make that kind of information available to the general public. And who can argue with funny youtube videos? wink

Avatar
technobushi

Ancient of Days
Members

Fambly
Thursday, 17th June, 2010 - 5:15 am
Member Since: Saturday, 22nd May, 2010
Forum Posts: 79
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don’t think it’s dangerous at all.  Using that logic, we would have to close down a lot of martial arts schools and revoke a lot of gun licenses.  The probability of the masses becoming even remotely proficient at such an art is so slim, anyway.

~Tenshidoom

Avatar
Jarandhel Dreamsinger
Arlington, VA

Site Admin
Thursday, 17th June, 2010 - 10:52 am
Member Since: Friday, 20th June, 2008
Forum Posts: 540
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I pretty much agree.  And yet, the supposed danger of sharing information publicly is part of the rationale used by many oathbound magical traditions, even when they’re not dealing with practices as aggressive as combat magic.

I tend to agree with Claude, much of it seems to me to be intended to create an aura of mystery and power around the tradition, thus attracting followers.  I don’t know if I’d call it elitist, just manipulative and also rather pathetic really.

I don’t agree that Radki is the natural result of sharing (accurate) information on combat magic with the public, though.  There’s too much lore about magic being used offensively.  The art of cursing is found across all cultures and traditions.  And not everyone who uses magic offensively is a fluffbunny.  Here’s a quote from the book I’ve been reading that I think you guys will like:

I know a very powerful magician who once told me that his favorite combat spell was the “Greater Evocation of the .357 Magnum Bullet Between The Eyes.” He said it never fails. Though spoken in jest, it would be wise to keep this anecdote in mind when considering the use of combat magic. If one cannot continence the use of my friend’s type of “magic spell”, then one has no business considering the use of any other type either.

Nor is this statement being used to build up an aura of power and mystery around the practice of combat magic; the author goes on to give very specific information about two methods of using magic offensively, and about countermeasures.  He also cautions against allowing oneself to become overly paranoid and letting your imagination run rampant, the main causes of “psychic warfare syndrome”, though he doesn’t use that term.  It’s an interesting read.

AnOtherWiki: A free encyclopedia by, for, and about Otherkin.  Join us, and help us grow.

 

Avatar
technobushi

Ancient of Days
Members

Fambly
Thursday, 17th June, 2010 - 11:55 am
Member Since: Saturday, 22nd May, 2010
Forum Posts: 79
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I agree.

We have a couple books on combat magic you might be interested in checking out.  They’ll likely appear as we go through our book collection.

Avatar
Jarandhel Dreamsinger
Arlington, VA

Site Admin
Thursday, 17th June, 2010 - 12:23 pm
Member Since: Friday, 20th June, 2008
Forum Posts: 540
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

*shrugs* It’s not really my focus, I just came across a chapter on it while reading a longer work and thought it brought up an interesting question.  I might take a look, though. 🙂

AnOtherWiki: A free encyclopedia by, for, and about Otherkin.  Join us, and help us grow.

 

Avatar
The Doctor
I am everywhere.

Ancient of Days
Members
Monday, 21st June, 2010 - 1:07 pm
Member Since: Monday, 21st June, 2010
Forum Posts: 28
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Jarandhel Dreamsinger said:
Personally, I pretty much agree.  But I’m curious what others think.  Do you think making such information available to the general public is dangerous, and equivalent to leaving a loaded gun where a child can get it?[/quote]

In my experience, letting novices attempt very complex magicks, or magicks that require a great deal of energy to perform is not as harmful as reputed. Most novices do not have the understanding of the symbols or the training to manipulate them as required to make them manifest anything. Those who have the capacity to raise enough energy but not the skill to manipulate it or use it along with the symbols tend to set their hair on fire (so to speak) and take themselves out before they can harm anyone else.

Avatar
Jarandhel Dreamsinger
Arlington, VA

Site Admin
Wednesday, 23rd June, 2010 - 9:21 am
Member Since: Friday, 20th June, 2008
Forum Posts: 540
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

The Doctor said:

In my experience, letting novices attempt very complex magicks, or magicks that require a great deal of energy to perform is not as harmful as reputed. Most novices do not have the understanding of the symbols or the training to manipulate them as required to make them manifest anything. Those who have the capacity to raise enough energy but not the skill to manipulate it or use it along with the symbols tend to set their hair on fire (so to speak) and take themselves out before they can harm anyone else.

Exactly… in some ways, it's a lot like making information about “hacking” available to the public… very, very few people of ill intent are actually going to be able to make use of anything beyond precompiled tools or prewritten scripts.  And of those, fewer still are going to be good at it.  Most often, they're going to shoot themselves in the foot.

AnOtherWiki: A free encyclopedia by, for, and about Otherkin.  Join us, and help us grow.

 

Avatar
Fei

Newbie
Members
Monday, 28th June, 2010 - 12:31 pm
Member Since: Sunday, 27th June, 2010
Forum Posts: 12
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I wonder if there's ever a sufficiently high level of skill and informedness to do things “right”. And I wouldn't expect it anymore to lie with the people held as or holding themselves as authorities in the field. As soon as you have a closed system of doing things, with hierarchies and axioms and traditions, you will miss out on information and not perceive where your system is lacking, at least that's what I think. Now this goes for a lot, but of course here there's a higher responsibility and worse consequences in case of failure and mistakes, provided it's anything valid at all and not make-believe anyway.

Biographical disclaimer, my view is likely rather biased from personal experience from dealing with something like it in a past life – high level authorities, passing things on only to the worthy ones and all that rubbish, self-righteous people thinking everything was perfect and well-thought-out and said authorities had the truth. Surprise, they didn't, and I ended up shooting myself in the foot quite heavily despite already being a sceptic. People are always blind somewhere, and no one wants to consider factors that don't fit into the neat worldview and/or magical system one's set up for oneself.

So… I'd say with actually functioning combat magic caution is necessary, but I couldn't think of a way in which anyone would be entirely qualified to use it. Then you get into the next type of discourse; even if the skill and knowledge were all there, the morals can be corrupt, and what good and corrupt morals are is subjective again and can't be decided by some person or other. In any case, elitism doesn't help one bit, it just makes people feel invincible and morally infallible, and blinds them to the flaws they should still fix. Ideally to me it wouldn't be used at all; if it is used (cause such is the world), it's just a fact to be accepted along with the usage that all sorts of mistakes can happen, to anyone. It's a risk, to everyone involved, and to think it wouldn't be is naive.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 104

Currently Online:
1 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Members Birthdays
sp_BirthdayIcon
Today None
Upcoming None

Top Posters:

Arethinn: 199

Claude: 122

technobushi: 79

Ayaka Inu: 30

The Doctor: 28

casteylan: 25

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1

Members: 575

Moderators: 0

Admins: 1

Forum Stats:

Groups: 6

Forums: 36

Topics: 216

Posts: 1319

Newest Members:

derekholt1980, xtw18387, Alica Pettit, Cels Argentum

Administrators: Jarandhel Dreamsinger: 540